Two of our contributors are asked to take opposing stances on an issue and present a case for their viewpoint. Comment and tell us who you agree with or what you believe or think! The topics are suppose to elicit a response and start a conversation in comments. Enjoy!
TOPIC: What my significant other doesn't know, won't hurt them. You agree with this or not? Should your significant other know?
Shelle Edit: I have needed to add this to the He Said She Said before this week, but have always forgotten for one reason or another. This blog is for ANYONE that would like to blog about their relationship(s) no matter how closed or open they would like to be. This week the He Said She Said topic was on "what they don't know won't hurt them". So I feel like I need to preface this one with a Disclaimer ;) -- The opinions expressed here are the views of the writers and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the Real World Venus vs. Mars owners.
She Said: Heels N Stockings
I've been with my husband for 21 years and for most part, I have been faithful, but the intimacy in our relationship is gone despite my vast attempts to entice and encourage him. I've asked him to go to the marriage counseling and he won't. I've dressed up in lingerie to help put him in the mood and I was laughed at for the effort.
We haven't had sex for over a year now and before then, the frequency of sex was sparse and mostly one-sided; he was done and off me before I could get anything out of it. I got so tired and sick of the hurt that came from constantly having to ask for him to touch or kiss me. I gave him an ultimatum - that either he paid intimate and emotional attention to me or the marriage was over. He chose not to take me seriously.
A few years ago I had an affair. It wasn't something I had planned...but it was amazing because someone actually wanted me. I'd forgotten what that felt like. Since then, I've enjoyed other affairs.
I do not seek a new partner. I do not wish to introduce a new person to my children because their lives are at such a key stage of growing up. But I came to realization some years ago - I had lost myself. When I am with my lover, I am me. They hold me, they see me, they listen to me. It keeps me smiling and make me have a feeling of self worth. I feel whole again.
Yes, I could leave him and divorce him...but the fact is I can't afford to. I am the major earner in the house, he lost his job some time ago and has a low paying job while he is looking for something better. Separation would bring financial pain and would effect the children.
I don't tell him as I don't want the status quo for the children to change. It won't hurt the kids if he doesn't know. So, I lie to him.
He Said: Nolens Volens
My wife and I have been together almost 12 years now; married for 10 years next month. We learned from each other that it is important to each other that we make the choices together. We made a promise that we would tell each other everything. I don't mean EVERYTHING. Sure, I tell her little white lies and I am sure she has done the same to me.
What we have not done is violate that promise. When I find a woman that I would like to get to "know better", I let my wife know about her. Why do we play with others when we are deeply committed to each other? My wife dropped a bombshell on me about 11 years ago when she confessed to me that she was bi-curious (now openly bisexual). When my wife finds a woman that she would love to have in her bed, she tells me about her. We do not have an open marriage because that infers we have our "play time" with others...on our own. No, we play with others...together.
We have had sexual relations with other people since we got married and we are still faithful to each other - by that, I mean we have never had any sexual relation with another person without each other's knowledge and consent. We agreed that we would get divorced if either one of us cheated.
I am not making excuses for HnS, but I certainly understand why she does what she does. Would I do the same thing if I ever find myself in the same situation like HnS did? I can't say "No" without any doubt in my mind, but I think that I would tell my wife.
Do you feel that sometimes what your significant other doesn't KNOW doesn't HURT them? Or does sometimes knowing still hurt them? Should the significant other know or not?
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61 comments:
I am sure this would hurt Heels N Stocking's spouse if he ever found out. What do you think will happen if he ever found out?
I don't think my husband has the right to be mad at me having sex with someone else as he refuses to have it with me. If he found out I'd fallen in love previously perhaps. If I was a man and his wife wasn't giving him sex it would be so muich more socially acceptable and forgivable.
Really? I wouldn't think it is socially acceptable to have an affair if I felt that my wife was inattentive to me. Maybe I'm clueless on the societal norms. What if your hubby never cheated on you? Wouldn't that be "more" unfair?
@DCHY my husband has had 3 affairs I'm aware of, he doesn't know I know of any except 1 when he slept with his boss but when caught he said he had only kissed her. It hurt but at the time it didn't effect our relationship, challenging him would of so I said nothing.
Also you need to understandfor years I have begged for intimate attention and been declined so many times. Last year I made it clear all I require from him now is friendship and parenting skills.
Heelsandstocking I could have written what you wrote..word for word. I get no explaination why he won't be intimate. We were when we were younger and now it is a chore for him and humiliating to me.
The only difference is I have had no affairs. A bit of flirting on line but no physical affairs. I have told I would if he didn't pay attention but I still get no where.
Otherwise we have fun together but for the most part our lives are sepeate. divorce options seem out of the question for the time being but when the kids are a bit older a distinct possibility. My "worry" is I'll be too old to interest anyone..
good luck and I hope you get what you are looking for.
Hmm. So you do not plan to tell him ever? Okay. I hope I didn't sound preachy. Just concerned for the kids. I'm a dad, ya know.
Okay well with my religion it is absolutely not okay to have sexual relations with anyone outside of marriage, so even if my husband gave me the go ahead, I promised never to do it--so both of your routes are not open for consideration to me.
As far as, what they don't know won't hurt them, my husband helped me understand that from the very beginning-some things just shouldn't be told as not to hurt your spouse unnecessarily - but I'm talking minuscule things like not telling me my butt looks big.
Things dealing with huge amounts of trust like that, to me, should be talked about.
If it was just about sex and I wasn't a part of the religion I am now, and either one of us wanted to experience it outside of marriage, I'd prefer it the way NV is doing it.
Having said that, I fully believe it invites trouble, bringing a third party into a marriage. It is so easy to see what your spouse isn't doing for you when you get to experience the honeymoon stage of a relationship again. But give that new relationship 5-10 years and it will be just as much work as the one you're currently in.
That's my two cents.
@DCHY but that's my point, I'm a mum and that comes first, I would of left him when I caught him first if we hadn't had kids, there happyness came before mine. I would not stay in this relationship if it wasn't for the longterm benefit of the children. Having the orgional affair was an accident, no intent, I realised though that I was so unhappy and had lost my self confidence. I have my self confidence back now and I'm a happier and better mother for it.
DCHY - I get what you are saying. I just saw your response to yesterday's post. You're absolutely clear on how you feel about affairs. Good.
Anonymous - never sell yourself short. If you are beautiful inside, that will translate over to your physical appearance. I still get attracted to women in their 50's, 60's, and 70's. It's the spirit in a woman that appeals to me the most. Not the looks.
Shelle - I do not think your butt looks too big. That's not a white lie. If you're wondering how did I see it, your blog has pictures. ;) Interesting statement you made there about not being part of religion and going my way. That was quite a cool thing for you to admit to that.
HnS - I got a question for you...when will you end the marriage? I am assuming you plan to do that when the kids are old enough...am I wrong?
@Shelle I totally admire you for your beliefs and convictions, I started out with those similar but life got in the way and whilst my beliefs remain the same and hope in the future I get to enjoy such a relationship again, this one is broken. If it wasn't for the sake of the family I would not be in this position. I know I could choose not to have sex/intimacy at all but I know that made me miserable and discontent with life.
I want to start marital councilling, not to fix things because I believe he is incapable, I have given him so many chances and tools to do so and he hasn't taken any of them. I want to do marital councilling to managed us splitting, I'd like to stay in the same house for the kids but for him to acknowledge the marriage is over and ensure we commit to bringing the kids up together.
That was meant to start @ Nolens, fingers slipped! (Most be sun lotion as lay poolside on holiday)
HnS - still doesn't answer my question. ;P
But I came to realization some years ago - I had lost myself. When I am with my lover, I am me. They hold me, they see me, they listen to me. It keeps me smiling and make me have a feeling of self worth. I feel whole again(HnS)
Interesting that you say this. Because if this is true, then the person you are in front of your children is a lie. Im curious, which person do you want your children to know, the whole one or the lie?
@Nolens appologies for lack of clarity, I now have my diary to hand and confirm dates... :P
About 2 months ago he finally agreed to start relationship councilling, he said he would sort it out to show his commitment to it this time. Still waiting!
When we get back from holiday I plan to take charge and book it myself. I would hope we are on our way to sorting things out by the end of the year. Does that answer more clearly?
@ Tit for Tat the person I am with the children is me the mother and its what I do best. I have the most brilliant and loving children. Going back a few years ago if they were not in the room with me I was lost, invisible and without direction. I realised that I had lost my self belief in me in everything else that I did. When I had my affair I gained more energy for life, I felt more capable, its amazing what having someone believe in you and encourage you can do for you, I had forgotten.
Tit For Tat - interesting question you posted to HnS. Does HnS's response to you satisfy you? I am curious as if she did or not...
Very very interesting. Maybe this will make no sense, but I find the concept of an "open marriage" much more appalling than an affair. I mean, if it works for you it works for you, but the way I see it an affair happens because things are not right at home. An affair happens because one (both?) partner is not being fulfilled/having their needs met/whatever. I'm not saying it's right, but I understand it a lot more than I do the concept of an open marriage. If things are so fabulous, why invite someone else into the mix? I don't get it.
I can see both sides of the He Said She Said debate today. I have an opinion on this but not one that I care to share freely here. NV knows what it is though.
I just wanted to say that both opinions were well written and had valid points to them. Well done you two.
@Anon. I wish I had the sort of relationship that NV does. Its brave and it works for them. That's the thing its what works in the marriage, whethers its religion, politics or sex we make it work for us individually.
@Alex thanks babe x
I think it's interesting that the topic automatically turned to affairs or sex outside a relationship. Or did I just miss that part when Shelle sent out her topics email! lol!
Because reading the topic, I think it could open up a lot more. Like I'd be curious to know if there are past things in your life that you are not open to sharing with your spouse/significant other.
@Heels N Stockings, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, especially because I am not married nor do I have children, but even with finanical hardship, if both people have had affairs and you're not getting what you need at home, I don't understand why someone would stay. I think I would put up with the finanical difficulties for awhile if I wasnt' getting the attention/affection/intamacy at home. But who knows, I've never actually been in that situation, JMHO.
HnS
I am sure you are "mother" when you are with your children. I think the area of concern is the "wife" you are teaching them to be. You may be able to reconcile the two, I wonder if they would though?
Anon
Open marriages happen all the time and its not just sex they are open about. Afterall not all wives like to golf. Good thing my wife doesnt mind if I have another golfing partner. ;)
I've come to the realization that one person cannot fulfill every desire, need and/or want of another. I also believe that people are capable of loving more than one person, they have the ability to love at multi or different levels.
My S/O, whom I divorced yet stayed with because of reasons to numerous to mention here, listened to my thoughts and said they sounded logical and resonable and that he could deal with my seeing other men. He also thought meeting those men would be good. I encouraged (begged, pleaded) with him to find other women. To make a long story short, he can't and/or won't understand my needs. He wants life to continue as it did before the break. Because it causes too much stress for me, I no longer tell him when I see my FWB.
I envy NV's relationship with his wife and totally understand HnS's reasoning. Being taken for granted is not sexy. Her husband obviously doesn't want to keep the talented, loving woman he has happy and cared for. That she doesn't want to harm her children nor cause additional stress to herself by telling him, is okay in my book. She is NOT presenting a false image to her children. She loves her children and they see a warm, loving mother not a sexual being or a WOMAN. That's as it should be, for now.
@Bare essentials. You are right I do not get what I need from home and I persoanlly do not have an issue with the financial hardship. Its about the kids. The are brilliant dancers but that costs £400 per month, if I were to look after the kids alone I could not afford to keep the house and that. (I'm the major money earner in the house) plus emotionally the kids are supported by both of us. Its me and the husband that are broke not the family.
As for other secrets previously, other than not telling him I knew about his affairs I don't think there was any above little white lies along the way. He has done from me, recently he lied and spent £3000 on car upgrades on a car and because he left the company he got the bill, or rather I did. He was fully aware it seems that this would be the case when he did it he just didn't think he would get caught so he didn't tell me.
@Tit for Tat I'm confident the kids witness a solid family unit. I'm away at the moment with my family, including my mother. A few days ago she said to me "your husband is an a**hole, he is ignorant and rude to you daily yet you smile and keeps those kids so happy, you should be proud of yourself, I am". It was the kindest words I've heard her say in a long time. I was pleased someone else noticed I was filling the gaps but doing a good job of it.
How do you think I'm failing them?
@Anon, thanks for comment! You are right, what I do in private does not effect my children. I often feel like I'm a discarded toy that the hubby does not want anymore but doesn't want anyone else to have.
And isn't that the point this is about whether secrets are good or bad thing?? Thanks xxx
A few days ago she said to me "your husband is an a**hole, he is ignorant and rude to you daily yet you smile and keeps those kids so happy, you should be proud of yourself, I am"(HnS)
Read these words out loud to yourself, carefully. Then ask yourself what you are teaching your children. Do you honestly think you are showing them a solid family unit, I mean honestly?
Here's one for everyone. Hope it makes you smile.
http://evildmguy.livejournal.com/618391.html
If you are the sole or the main bread winner in the family, having him gone shouldn't be that much of a struggle money wise (but I have no idea of your situation, so I'm only going on what you have posted!) It would actually be one less mouth to feed and support, again, JMHO.
I have to agree with Tit for Tat about what example is being set for the kiddos though. Are they learning to just settle instead of going after what would truly make them happy.
@ Tit for Tat, I can yes thanks, the children are happy, they are loved and cared for, they want for nothing emotionally, what more do they need, perfection isn't out there, we are all flawed, its how we deal with the flaws that counts
HnS
Ok.
@Bare essentials, I'm afraid brittish law would mean I have to keep him as well, I'd be paying him what I believe you guys call allamony?? So instead of him contributing to the household income he would be costing me.
And as I said to Tit for Tat, we set a brilliant example, the behaviour, confidence and stability of my children is proof of it for me. If I doubted that for just one moment I would not be here or I would be fixing it.
HnS:Hey girl--
"That's the thing its what works in the marriage, whethers its religion, politics or sex we make it work for us individually."
A marriage isn't about the individual though. Your husband is being selfish I understand that, so you have lashed back by doing the very thing that made you feel discarded in the first place.
When you get married you make vows. Whether I was religious or not, I'd hope that I would be the person that stayed true to those vows. If I wasn't happy I'd explore all avenues to reconcile if that is what I desired. If he wasn't willing to do that, then I would start down the road to splitting apart. Valuing my "family structure" would benefit from that because it would show that I stayed true to my character and true to myself-kids are strong and adaptable and thrive amongst the greatest odds. I think kids seeing their parents live together but seeing other people is just as confusing and hard to handle as parents splitting apart. AS long as you have a great front as parents, your kids will be better off with the honesty in my opinion.
Kids are incredibly smart and I bet you are an incredible mom. But they also know the discord between your husband and yourself, don't kid yourself and think they don't. They just don't say anything.
If marriage counseling between the two of you will work to help parent together, then I say go for it.
But getting down to what this post is about.
Secrets are dangerous and eventually blow up. The more open you can be with each other-which also equals respect for one another-the better, to me.
Especially because marriage is about two individuals who vowed to make life work together.
@shelle, apologies I meant individual marriage not persons I totally agree.
And yes agreed about the point of the post! Currently defending self about my parenting ability because I have sex.
The untruths work for me as it keeps me here, it keeps the family together. Telling the truth for me hurts the children, that is something I can't do. And yes one day I may get caught but its not about me being guilty as he is also, its about why I do it for me.
@shelle, apologies I meant individual marriage not persons I totally agree.
And yes agreed about the point of the post! Currently defending self about my parenting ability because I have sex.
The untruths work for me as it keeps me here, it keeps the family together. Telling the truth for me hurts the children, that is something I can't do. And yes one day I may get caught but its not about me being guilty as he is also, its about why I do it for me
I don't need to explain my own stance - as Shelle has explained that pretty well. Religion and my personal convictions have kept my life pretty tame...
Secrets can be damaging - (not just sexual secrets)- I think we like to tell ourselves that we're not hurting anyone...
Do our partners need to know EVERYTHING? I've long said that the past is the past... no reason to discuss those (unless those decisions have long lasting effects)but an affair...I'm afraid I just don't get it...I'm not judging - I'm just without a basis for giving my two cents.
Sheesh, Titty Tat, you sure are fixated on golf. Every time I see you commenting on relationships you bring up golf. Makes me wonder...
Um, anyway. I see a lot of myself in HnS - in her feelings anyway; I haven't stepped outside my marriage. But I absolutely understand the need to be valued and loved and desired and cared for. I understand seeking that out when you're not getting it at home.
I'm with the anonymous commentator who doesn't get the whole sexually open marriage thing though. I know it works for some people, obviously it works well for Mr. and Mrs. NV but if I was in a great relationship, I would not be interested in sharing. Plus, it's really not fair to make someone see me naked unless he's legally obligated to do so. I'd hate to make an innocent swinger go blind.
@gucci... Rolling on floor laughing! Love it!
HnS - Wink. I read a lot of your stuff and I don't usually comment because I generally suck at life these days, but I want you to know that I love your honesty and candor and I. Get. It. Oh man, do you speak to me, lady. Rawr.
This is an interesting discussion. I think that there is a big difference between having a filter on your mouth and deliberately hiding major things from your partner. The first has more to do with concern for your partner's feelings (i.e. not saying their butt looks big) by refraining from speaking every thought that may come into your head, if it is hurtful and serves little other purpose. In those cases, why say it?
However, something like hiding a gambling problem, large financial expenditures made without your partner's knowledge, an affair, etc. usually can and does hurt them. It also has the potential to hurt the innocents too. I would rather know the facts (as harsh as they may be), and make decisions accordingly.
I think that @Tat poses some interesting questions and is trying to make a valid point. Kids are often more perceptive than we may give them credit for. Whether we want to admit it or not, we are teaching them by example (even when we may not think that we are).
Parents usually have the best interests of their children at heart. Sometimes it can be in the form of providing specific opportunities (i.e. the dance lessons that @HNS mentioned).
For me, there are additional considerations. From a long-term perspective, I want my kids to be in happy and healthy relationships. I think that they will have better odds of success when they see that modeled growing up. I don't want my son or daughter to think they should just put up with apathy, disrespect or other mistreatment. I also don't think that they should see us give up without trying when we face difficulties.
It's a fine line either way. Ultimately, we all are entitled to act according to our own conscience, and in ways that works for us.
Mama
Thats cause my life is like my golf game. A 1/3 of the time in the fairway, 1/3 of the time in the rough and 1/3 of the time in the trees. Oh and the hardest six inches on the course is between my ears. :)
Between your...ears? Really? Huh. Good to know, dear.
HnS did NOT have to say anything about affairs. She chose to reveal that as a major example for "Should your spouse know?". She has handled the comments above admirably without getting all bitchy about it. Serves me right to disappear for over two hours on the day I do a HSSS post. ;)
Anon - excellent discussion about other issues such as gambling or large purchases. I believe that they are all damaging to the relationship. Kids are smarter than we realize and we do need to be reminded of that once in a while.
Tit For Tat - interesting euphemism for swinging. Swinging is swinging. I don't negotiate for offshore drilling rights or bat for the other team while my wife switch-hits.
Well certainly an interesting debate, for my part I think H & S should be appauled for her honesty and candor. Any one who follows her blogs will know that without question her children come first and maintaining the homelife for them is her first priority. Her husband from what we have been told is hardly in line for spouse of the year indeed decade so for H & S to find some oasis of happiness in her hectic life is comforting. Unfortunatley the British attitude to sex although changing is still very much 'no sex please we're British' whilst behind closed doors its rampant so for H & S to bear her soul shows to me what a strong and determined woman she is. I can only hope that her husband will join her in the counselling arena and they can finally discuss some of the issues.
Being honest to others is secondary be honest to yourself.
I wish her well.
NV-no she did not have to reveal that, but she did, which leaves it open to discuss since it is a major part of her argument.
The thing is, is that she can be open and honest here (meaning online), anonymous, because who she really is is not revealed...I'm sure that is part of her therapy also, being able to release her secret.
But Heels why not be that open and strong and have that candor with your husband? Why not work on that?
I get the feeling of being wanted and desired and loved. But didn't that come at the first of your relationship with your husband? I wrote about it here on this blog, but I think what you want is that lust-the urgency, the high of feeling wanted that way. But like I said-give that relationship a contract of marriage, a few kids and aren't we right back where we started? We all at one point or another, especially female, don't feel wanted, loved, or desired how we want to be... But it's how we choose to go about getting that. You choose to do it in secret.
I totally agree that your husband sounds like a douche bag. But for me the going behind each others backs to keep it together for the kids is hard for me to understand.
"Being honest to others is secondary to being honest to yourself" -Anon-but how is having an affair honest with yourself? How is doing something dishonest being honest at all?
Just wondering.
Anyway- I also wanted to touch on the open marriage vs. Affair thing. To me at least an open marriage your spouse isn't being untrustworthy. Sure it makes no sense other than they get to have their cake and eat it too, but if I had to choose between sneaking behind my husbands back and being open about it... I'd choose the latter.
I think it easy to be blacl and white unless you live it. The cost of honesty for me is to high to pay, I would be happier not lying I do not do this for my gain, I would leave him tomorrow given the opportunity to do it without damaging the childrens lives, until then I will continue to do so, it is a fair compromise and it makes more people happy than not.
The cost of honesty for me is to high to pay(HnS)
This is where we all make choices and assessments of those choices. You see being dishonest in regards to your relationship with your children to be more profitable in the long term. I(and others) seem to believe that you may not clearly see the picture of the potential damage you could cause your children if(or when) they find out this lie. Its hard to evaluate how someone will feel when they have to view the life they lead or belief of it from a totally different lense. I hope for your sake and the sake of your children you are making the right call.
As far as the open marriage thing goes. What difference does it make to a committed couple if they have sex with multiple partners IF they view sex as a playful enterprise? Not all people view it solely from a spiritual union perspective. So long as no one is taking advantage or hurting someone, far be it for me to say its wrong.
So, Tat, out of curiosity you aren't (or wouldn't be - whatever the case) hurt/upset/offended by your wife being playful with someone else as long as you knew about it? What if it was done in secret? And do you think that people can just have casual sex without emotion involved, without some kind of bond even if everyone knows the bond isn't/shouldn't be permanent? And if you don't think they can, does it bother you that your wife might have an emotional bond with someone else? Would it bother her if you did?
I realize that was a horribly long string of questions, but I just can't understand why someone in a happy, fulfilling relationship would seek physical intimacy elsewhere. Splain it to me.
I can see HnS's position perfectly, I totally understand her feelings. I may not have walked the same road, but I get her. You, Tat, I don't quite get.
Based on the question alone, not all the reasons for Hns having an affair, she shouldn't tell him. Whether or not she wants to keep him from hurting or save herself the torment after he knows, makes no difference. He doesn't need to know. She's maintaining her part of the wife and mother part of the marriage. He's not keeping up his part of the bargain (as far as I can tell from what's written) she has found a way to make her feel whole and make life better for herself.
Aren't part of the "vows" to love, honor and cherish? From what HnS has said, she's not getting any of those from a spouse that swore them before God.
Shelle, Gucci Mama, and Nitebyrd - I am definitely visiting you! ;)
Tit For Tat - I wonder the same thing what Gucci Mama said to you...if you're willing to play with someone on your own while excluding your wife or vice versa. My wife is clear on that rule, but she let a very good friend of her play with me on my own. I told my wife every little detail afterward and she hung on to every word. I'd let my wife play on her own. Would you?
Come on over, NV, baby. ;)
Mama and NV
Jesus, did I open a can of worms. ;)
If my wife and I discussed and agreed that was something we wished as a couple to partake in, then I would say yes on all accounts. Knowing my wife though, I do not see all of those ideas as being options for her or me. I do believe people can partake in Sex and not have the same emotional attachment that others would. That is what makes the world interesting, the fact that we all feel and do things differently. I would imagine not all of us would want to kill, so isnt it fortunate that we have a military/police force to help us in those situations.
I'm just curious, Titty Tat. I'm not judging. I would be afraid, even if all parties were in agreement, that lines could be unintentionally crossed and feelings hurt. But you know me, TT, I'm just an old fashioned, boring conservative. I'd rather count my money and war monger than have sex anyway. ;)
Mama
The thing is you run that risk even with close friends. If you get along really well with anyone you run that risk. The truth is, if you dont have any issues with your spouse then the risk is minimal or non existent. People dont cheat for sex, people cheat because they are emotionally disconnected. If you listen to any of the commenters(women) on here who talk about infidelity, the sex is only great because they are first validated as a human being(woman).
There is an old joke in regards to that way of thinking.
"Women give sex for love and men give love for sex." ;)
I don't think HnS is wrong to seek emotional affection and physical affection elsewhere. He husband has abandoned her with regards to these needs. All humans needs touch and affection, to be heard.
That's great that NV can be so open but that only works for couple and individuals mature enough and secure enough to handle such knowledge. Also, it's a totally different story when kids are involved and the threat of turning their world upside down is looming.
-H
Very interesting topic.
Not sure I want to comment on either discussion although I see their individual points.
As for the original question: my husband is EXTREMELY jealous. I can't even speak of my ex (& father of my child) or my ex's family without severe discourse. So, I just neglect to mention any conversations or interactions with aforementioned taboo subjects with my husband. Innocent conversations with my ex mother in law should not cause pain for my husband, so some things, depending on individuals and situations, ARE better left unknown.
However, if directly questioned, I will not lie. I mean, he asked for it.
Tat - Stop the presses! You and I are in exact agreement about what you just said. Amazing!
HnS- You need to do what works for you and not fear judgment from any of us! It is your life and it seems to me like you are a great mom and that is what is important.
NV- I too envy that you have a happy healthy relationship. It may not be the norm for some of us, but if it workd for you, that is what matters and I would kill for happy and healthy and how ever that looks to me.
Shelle- I love your conviction and how you always stand for what you believe with out judgment! you ROCK!
TT- As always, you have great comments and I get you most of the time. But yu are such a pot stirrer.
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