He Said, She Said - Romance

Today's topic is romance: What exactly is romance? And is it overrated? Donna of The Bare Essentials Today and Brian of The Cheek of God offer their opinions, so read on . . .

SHE said:

Romance is overrated

Romance (n., adj.) a fictitious tale of wonderful and extraordinary events characterized by a non-realistic and idealizing use of the imagination. An exaggeration or fabrication that has no real substance.

Our culture has defined romance as the ultimate experience in an intimate relationship. It's idealized as the euphoria of being "in love." When, in reality, it doesn't have anything to do with love, but more so with having your personal needs met. It becomes the catalyst for having certain needs met, while not having to define or put a label on those needs.

If you're already having your "personal needs" met in any relationship you're in, where is the need for this fictitious tale or this grandiose display of affection?

I guess I'm just a simple kind of gal. A desirous look into my eyes. A simple I love you. I don't need any over-the-top gestures to let me know that I'm needed and wanted. And I guess to some those would be considered romantic gestures, but I think they should be part of the norm, rather than the exception.

I just Googled "romantic gestures" and these are a few of the gems that I came up with:

1) Do the laundry - really? I would expect that from a partner.

2) Write a message with a bar of soap on the mirror - Who's gonna clean that up?

3) Unwind with a glass of wine - Again another given.

4) Share things about your work day - It's called dialogue. And work? Not really so romantic!

5) Change her oil - Really?

6) Go grocery shopping - No comment.

7) Pay her a compliment in front of people you know - Again, no comment.

8) Help with or do the dishes - I would expect that. (Maybe I expect too much!)

9) Have a quickie somewhere new - Hot, but definitely not romantic.

10) Express appreciation for specific things your partner does for you - Again, a Thank You would be expected.

11) Be his/her slave for a day - Again, could be hot but there's nothing romantic about that. Slave is such an undermining term.

Maybe I'm too jaded. Maybe it's because I'm single right now. But none of these seem like they are worth the effort or would mean as much to me as a gesture that I would just expect to come naturally in a relationship (I love you, winks, soft touches, etc.). Well, maybe the quickie someplace new ;)

I once dated this guy who lived by the book The 5 Love Languages. He quizzed me on it during our first date and apparently by my answers he concluded that I thought like a dude. Maybe he was right.

What do you consider romantic?

HE said:

Methinks Donna made up that definition of romance, based on her experiences, and I sort of like it. And yet I must (or rather, the nature of this type of post forces me to) disagree. Romance isn't some "exaggeration or fabrication that has no real substance." I believe instead that there is a very real, substantial, and yet ultimately mysterious element within genuine romance. To wit, I'll offer my favorite definition, straight from the American Heritage English Dictionary:

romance (n.) - A mysterious or fascinating quality or appeal, as of something adventurous, heroic, or strangely beautiful.

In short, I believe romance isn't just something we do, it is also, more importantly, something that is a part of us. And romance often manifests itself in ways that are not so easily pinpointed.

Looking back at Donna's list of romantic gestures, a cautionary theme emerges: Be wary of any guy who does such things - especially when they are actions he typically doesn't perform - for, in the end, he did it all for the nookie, and such actions ultimately lead to disappointment and heartache. In the same vein, Kevin Leman once wrote that Sex Begins in the Kitchen. And while the book makes some interesting points, the overall message - that intimacy can be cultivated by the things we do - is too simplistic. Too pragmatic. For if we do things only to get things, then isn't that merely manipulation?

That dog don't hunt. And perhaps it's because of people who believed this tripe, and tried to apply these principles in their relationships with Donna, that she has become so jaded. (My apologies, Donna, on behalf of right-thinking men everywhere.)

So what am I getting at?

In gearing up to write this post, I did a bit of research. (See, Shelle!? I may write these posts on the day they are due, but I usually preface my writing with a modicum of preparation ;-) I stopped by my local Barnes & Noble and perused the magazine rack, seeking some current thoughts on romance and relationships from a man's perspective. I flipped through recent issues of GQ, Esquire, Men's Journal. Even Maxim. And while the pictures were lovely, and I do occasionally enjoy reading about camping, technology, style and fitness, there was nary a solid piece of relationship advice to be found. I even dove into family- and relationship-oriented magazines like Family Fun and Parenting and came up empty.

And then I saw it! "Make Me Laugh: Humor and Romance" on the cover of . . . Scientific American Mind?!

Woot!

Here are the bullet points from science writer Christie Nicholson's article, titled "The Humor Gap:"

1) When seeking a mate, men desire women who laugh at their jokes, whereas women prefer men who can make them laugh.

2) Once a man and a woman are in a relationship, humor roles change.

This article confirmed for me two very obvious things about my relationship with my wife:

1) She was immediately hooked after I guzzled root beer floats and shoved pizza up my nose. Witnessing me at my slapstick best, she loved me anyway and gave me a shot.

2) Her enduring sense of humor made my recent extended period of unemployment tolerable. In fact, I can safely say that she saved my life on more than one occasion, simply by reaching down into my depths (she refuses to go there with me) and lifting me up with her tried-and-true, one-two combination of compassion and encouragement, both tinged with her own subtle, humorous touch.

As we've grown old together, humor has been the constant fuel for our romantic fire. Initially, I was the comedian and she my willing audience. She laughed at me, and I dug her laughter. Now, we share inside jokes, the punchlines of which are ours alone. And none of this is the result of any particular thing we've done. It's who we are. There is no exaggeration there. Only the reality of two lives merged into one. Two roads that lead toward a common goal:

Laughter.

So, as I've defined it, romance is indeed necessary - even if not so easily pigeonholed - and far from overrated. For those that would be romantic, there must be the realization that romance transcends actions. Accordingly, romance goes beyond having your personal needs met. Those things come with the proper foundation is laid. And the foundation is not made merely of the things you do, but by the stuff of which you are. And relationships built on the right stuff will stand . . .

11 years...and still nothing to that at all

It's funny how life can be...fleeting...or fickle...or temperamental...or unblinkingly brutal - and yet you'd get down on your knees, no matter how messed up they are, and thank life (or whatever you believe in) for giving you a shot at happiness.

Before I met my wife in 1998, I was never able to maintain a relationship for more than few months at any time. Why couldn't I? Nothing seemed "comfortable" to me every time I ventured out into the tricky domain of dating and relationships. After a while, I was beginning to think that maybe I was the one with commitment issues.

When I met my wife the first time, nothing happened. No lightning bolt. No magic. No love at first sight. The Earth didn't crack. She was someone's girlfriend and I wasn't the type to mess around. I didn't really get to talk to her - just the introduction and I just moved on. Came across her in a bar few months later and I found out that she was single.

I came over to her, basically ignoring her friends with nothing more than a cursory greeting to each, and introduced myself. She smiled and said, "I remember who you are." That did stop me in my tracks and she had my attention. I chatted up with her a little and found out that she lived just 5 miles from where I participate in a dart league on Wednesdays. So, I asked her out and I gave her every chance to back out because this is a dart league but she kept assuring me that she would be happy to watch me compete.

She showed up like she said she would. After chatting with her for a while, I learned that the opposing team had not shown up and had to forfeit. This meant that I had more time to talk with her and boy, did I talk and talk and talk with her. The bar owner came by our table and informed us that it was time to close. That surprised me because I had lost track of time, so I turned to her and asked "Since everything else is closed for the night, what do we do?" She suggested that we go to her house and talk some more.

I finally left her house at 6:30 am, having chatted with her 11 hours straight and we agreed that I wouldn't return tonight or the next day so we each could spend Christmas Eve and Christmas Day with our loved ones. I came to her house at 7 pm on the 26th and left her house at 8:30 am the next day, having chatted with her for over 13 hours. That's mind-boggling 24 hours total on TWO dates.

She ended up moving in with me just 3 months later and proposed to me 2 months after that. I asked her about her "I remember you" remark few years later and she told me that when she met me the first time, she mentally took note of this tall guy with glasses because she found me to be very interesting. She had been curious about me ever since then.

We celebrate December 23rd every year as the date we started our lives together...and she is still curious about me.

Nolens Volens he also writes on his personal blog Welcome to My Secret Spot (Not Safe For Work)

Can I twist your definition of Romance???

Romance: How important is it? Do you hate that you have to make an effort to be romantic? Does your spouse expect too much? Do you not get enough romance in your marriage... is your significant other romantically retarded?

Alright these are the questions posed to me by Shelle. I am to write the female perspective on this topic. My perspective has drastically changed on this topic. It has changed because I took the time to figure out the male perspective (I know.... I'm ducking) Ok, so here is what I used to think: He doesn't care enough to take the time to be romantic toward me. IF he truly cared he would plan from the sitter to the activity to the fabulous gift of xyz (fill in your dream item here).

The one truly classic, text book "romantic" thing my dear husband does for me is this- every Valentine's Day he gives me the same thing. It costs him no money, only a bit of time and a piece of paper. He has been doing this for over 12 years now. He makes a top 10 list of the reasons he loves me. It is a perfect gift and one I look forward to. I love looking back on these lists because they serve as a history, a passing of time, a tale of what was going on that year in our lives.

Past that, by definition of "classic romance" my husband is indeed a dud! But, this may shock you. I don't care. It does not bother me. Because I (like other things in my life) have bucked the system and I no longer believe in the "classic" definition of romance. Here is why:

My understanding of romance drastically changed after I read this book. I was floored by what I read and I asked my husband and several other men it this information was true ... come to find out the information in this book is indeed accurate - it states this: "men are unromantic clods" the general summary is this: "Actually most men enjoy romance (sometimes in different ways) and want to be romantic- but hesitate because they doubt they can succeed." It goes on to say in this book that a man's idea of romance is far far different from a woman's idea. Where a woman's idea is candlelight, music, dinner, one on one time etc. a man's idea could be fishing.

Women out there hold your tongues, do not close your minds quite yet. Think about it. A man wants you around and wants to do what he likes. How hard is that to consider. Women are the ones who are being clods if we think men are digging the $50 a piece meal (when all our man is doing is adding up how many hours they had to work to pay for it) then truly it is our faults! Men consider spending time with their mates to be a form of romance. It does not matter if it is hunting, fishing, shoveling dirt, playing a video game, or eating at the top of the Stratosphere in Vegas - spending time doing what they enjoy - that is a definition of romance.

I will leave you with one example: October 3rd was my hubby's birthday. I surprised him by bringing all four kids to my parent's house for the evening (a rare thing around here). We spent the evening geo-caching in the rain and the mud. I wore jeans and a sweatshirt, boots a work coat and a stocking hat. This activity requires lots of back road driving around here so we had time to talk and listen to the radio and relax in general. At a few of the stops to find the "geocaches" I had a beer and by the last stop (which was a public lake access) I was dancing on the dock with the radio blaring while he tromped through the woods looking for the treasure. From there we went to a back woods bar and had supper - prime rib and baked potatoes - a very manly meal but drop dead delicious! We then went home and finished celebrating his bday (*wink wink, nudge) and went to bed by 9:30pm. He said it was the best date ever. Why? because we did what he enjoyed and had fun doing it. We only spent $35 for supper, I brought beer from home that I threw in a cooler in the back, and probably about $10 in gas.

Really, if I think about it, I had more fun doing that than I would have at a classy restaurant, in uncomfortable clothing, spending more money than we could afford to all in the name of romance. Who sets what is romantic anyway? Why does it have to be wine and candles? (I hate wine and scented candles make me gag)

After learning what men consider romantic, that part of our relationship has been better. If I want dinner, movie, music, kids gone, hotel, hot "cuddling" under the sheet, etc then I had best plan it. He goes along with it and we have fun. But, if I want him to plan a date, I need to be willing to accept his definition of fun and romance.

Well what do you think? Always happy to talk about it in comments!











Picture of Dearest and Youngest geocaching

Son of a Romantic

“Let’s get your mom some flowers.” It was this simple sentence, uttered by my dad, that began my informal education in romance. I was nine years old, and we were on our way home from an afternoon of errands. My dad stopped at a roadside flower stand, picked out a bunch and delivered them home to my mom. There were big smiles and generous hugs for the both of us.

Over the years, my dad taught me a lot about romance. Besides the valuable lesson in floriography, he instructed me to open car doors for dates, always pay the check and not to be shy about giving them my arm anywhere we walked. I witnessed my dad stop at the roadside flower stand many times. He would send my mom love notes. In both direct and indirect ways, my dad taught me how valuable a spontaneous romantic gesture could be.

A lot of my father’s playful, romantic side has been sewn into the fabric of my marriage. One of the first impressions that WonderWife™ says I made on her was the fact that I showed up at her door for our first date carrying a big bouquet of sunflowers. I try not to let too much time go by without a love note here or a text message there. With WonderWife™ it’s easy.

I can’t imagine being with somebody that didn’t stir my inner romantic side. Being romantic shouldn’t be a chore. Nor does it have to be done with big sweeping gestures. This is where TV and movies have steered us wrong. A room lit by 100 candles may be romantic, but, as I found out one night, it requires a lot of work to set them up and light them. Not to mention the time it took to blow them out later. Yes, candles are nice, but a simple note hidden in a conspicuous place can work just as well. The one that I left for WW™ in our kitchen pantry is still hanging there three years after I wrote it.

Romance is about surprise. It’s turning off the lights and throwing in a CD one evening. It’s having a picnic on the front lawn every once in a while, instead of dinner in front of the tube. Romance is most powerful when it’s unexpected. The best flowers you can give are on a random Tuesday, to let your partner know you’re thinking about them even during the ordinary, mundane times.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I’m Casanova. Nor am I implying that I am the most innovative romantic out there. There are sometimes long stretches that go by where the romance is pushed to the back by dirty diapers, doing the dishes or a new episode of Lost. But I’m wired in a way where if I can’t remember the last romantic gesture I’ve made, something in me clicks and puts a new one into motion. And there are some simple, proven gestures that always go over well.

To the ladies out there: romance doesn’t just fall to the guys. The same lessons apply. The fellas like a little attention as well. Everyone in a relationship should realize that romance doesn’t take a lot of effort, just a little bit of thought and planning.


I’m lucky to be the son of a romantic. The lessons from my dad have made a strong impact on me and helped me get the most out of my relationships. So when I’m out with the Bean doing errands, every once in a while I will lean over and say to him, “Let’s get your mom some flowers.”